What year(s) did Saab have the sludge problem w/it's engines and what was the cause of this? I hear so much about what engine is the best out of the three Saab has/had offered, being the 2.3 the oldest of the bunch I guess. Everyone seems to use the synthetic oil instead of conventional.Reason? Are the oil passages that narrow that you need something as thin as water to keep this engine from turning into a mud pool?
I'd love to get a 03-04 Aero, I don't care much for the re-designed interior and headlight treatment on the new model. The interior is more cheap (GM) looking than the more aircraft inspired interior of the later models. Maintenance costs and reliability- dieing on me in traffic due to a failed DI cassette seems unheard of in car costing this much money due to a simple spark failure. This gives me caution to pursue a Saab purchase, but I like the car more than any other 4 door sedan in it's price range for some strange reason. (Used prices of course) Please inform. Thanks!!
saab_9_3 replied: "A bunch of engines have sludge problems but it is not only Saab. According to the Center for Auto Safety all of the following engines have the sludge problem from Saab:
1998-2003 SaabH engine B205/B235I4
1998-2003 Saab 9-5 B235 2.3 L
1999 Saab Viggen B235 2.3 L
2000-2002 Saab 9-3 B205 2.0 L
2000-2003 Saab 9-3 convertible B205 2.0 L
Here are the other brands that have issues - note that Toyota has extensive issues as well:
1998-2002 Chrysler2.7 L LHV6
2001-2002 Dodge Stratus/Chrysler Sebring
1998-2002 Dodge Intrepid/Chrysler Concorde
1996-2001 Toyota3.0 L 1MZV6
August 1996-July 2001 Toyota Camry
June 1998-May 2001 Toyota Camry Solara
July 1997-May 2001 Toyota Sienna
July 1996-May 2001 Toyota Avalon
November 2000-July 2001 Toyota Highlander
August 1998-July 2001 Lexus ES300
January 1998-July 2001 Lexus RX300
1996-2001 Toyota5SFEI4
August 1996-July 2001 Toyota Camry
June 1998-May 2001 Toyota Camry Solara
August 1996-April 1999 Toyota Celica
1997-2004 VolkswagenVW 1.8tI4
1997-2004 Audi A4 1.8t
1998-2004 Volkswagen Passat 1.8t
So it is not limited to Saab. To futher explain the H engine (the first Saab engine listed), here is a further explanation:
The H engine was introduced in 1981 in the Saab 900 and was also used in the Saab 99 from 1982 onwards and the Saab 90. It continued in use in the 900/9-3, 9000, and 9-5. The 2003 Epsilon based 9-3 switched to the GM Ecotec, leaving the 9-5 as the sole user of the H engine. The last model year for this family of engines will be 2009.
Essentially, in 2003 the Saab 9-3 went to a newer GM Ecotec engine on the redeisgn, so the oil sludge problems were eliminated on all 9-3 cars that year except for the convertible which stuck with the older engine for one more year before switching over. The old engine that has sludge problems dates back to 1972 on the Saab B engine (also listed above) which was an exclusive Saab/Scania design when Saab bought Scania. Unfortunately, the engine out of that merger was pretty bad - the worst thing is that GM still sells it today in the ancient 9-5.
Note that care of these engines if done right will prevent sludge, but it is just harder to maintain those engines. You did not mention which model you are looking at, but I am hoping this laundry list of all the engines with potential problems will help you."
Tashfeen Qayyum replied: "Great reply from my other friend. However, some time I feel that the space given here is not enough to give a proper reply. Please send me an email with your email address and then I can send to you some more details about the sludge problem which Saab had.
I am driving a 04 9-5 Aero, I renewed the lease on it today and bought extended warranty for it for 3 years 50,000 kilometers, and this is my 4th Saab fromm 1995 onwards. Great car, no major issues, oil changes at 10,000 kilometers using synthetic Mobil 1 all the way. D.I Cassette failures do not happen everyday plus do not keep listening to people who use the wrong spark plugs instead of the recommended ones just to save a few dollars. I do not like the new facelift and the interior either, it is too bland. Let me have your email and I will send to you all the deatils on sludge."
mjmik1 replied: "saab was the best before gm got involved"
Should I buy a 2001 SAAB 9-5 w/ 101k mi. for $5.5-7.5k? It's in good condition...? I'm a die-hard SAAB lover and very concerned about the safety of vehicles. I want a super-safe car, but am limited by funds. The car looks beautiful, and has been tremendously loved by its previous owner. It has new brakes, new tires, and service records for at least the past three years. It's a 9-5 SE V6.
The only reason I ask is that I'm concerned about the reliability. I've checked edmunds.com and other spots for customer reviews, and I've noticed that the reviews for the V6 have been more reliable. The engine had a moderate layer of dirt on it; but I doubt it's a sign of anything because it's from an area with mostly dirt roads. The autocheck shows it's had 4 owners, but only 20k mi. unaccounted for, and that was the second owner after it was a fleet car. Also, I was wondering, what's the best way to bargain down the price? It's $7.5k, but I'd be willing to pay $5.5k for it. They're pricing it using NADA book, which is always thousands higher than prices on edmunds. Should I just show them the edmunds price report?
Anyway, thanks in advance to anyone who helps me out.
(P.S.: Please, if you're just going to say basically, "SAABs suck and you shouldn't buy that crap," then don't post. I need real answers that are backed up with real data.)
Just as a side note, the car is being sold private party. The guy doesn't really know much about it even though he owns it. Example: he thinks it's a German car.
Any thoughts on 2002 Saab 9-3? Tell me the good, the bad, and the ugly....Maintenance costs/upkeep/reliability? I found one I really like (test driving tomorrow) and it's in my price range, but I want to know if it will go to 150K+ like a honda/toyota/nissan will? I've spoke to some independent parts/maintenance people, and they say care is not as pricey as it used to be. If anyone has any info, I'd greatly appreciate it! Thanks!
DmanLT replied: "Get it. They're hot. They're riliable. Very solidly built. Plus they got the prestige factor, and some nice acceleration. So get one before GM totally messes them all up by sharing their piece of crap GM parts bin with them... Think SAAB SUV... 2002 is still a SAAB more or less. Can't promise you that for long tho."
brentml22 replied: "ive heard they are not very reliable, alot of money for a subpar car"
dwalkercpa replied: "i had a 9-3 arc (the mid-level model) and absolutely loved it. that little 2 liter, 4 cylinder, turbo charged baby screamed and with the six-speed - what a blast to drive. i could cruise at 90mph and get 30 mpg. i had a couple of problems with the electric windows, but those were covered by warranty. the disk brakes actually had GM stamped on them. i'd get another one in a heartbeat."
hvandyk82 replied: "So my fiance is a technician, and is telling me that Saab's are terrible to work on, parts are outrageous, and even though they are cute little cars they dont run forever. Nothing will. The only upside is the Swedish engineering is a plus for speed and stability if thats what your going for. Try a Toyota, they last a very long time, repairs and parts a affordable and there new models are neat."
hartnessracer replied: "Theres a saab stry behind every one good luck finding anyone who wants to work on it."
Chad D replied: "Oh yea, Saabs are awful. Bunch of junk. And the old ones are even worse.
That must be why my 20 year old 900 has 280,000 miles on it and still runs like a champ, doesn't burn and oil and gets 33 mpg on the highway.
Oh and Saab parts are like insanely expensive. Why AutoZone charges $150 for a alternator for a 2002 9-3. Whereas AutoZone will sell you an alternator for a 2002 Toyota Camery for a platry $172.
Why that's a savings of minus $22!
And then there's those silly turbos. Everyone knows they are a flakey part that's prone to failure if not babied. Did I mention my 280,000 car still has the original turbo and makes a healthy 12 lbs of boost? Did I?
Here's the deal. With proper maintance the car should have no problems exceeding 150,000 miles. If you like the way it drives then buy it. And you should get a good value as some many people are put off their value plumets for the first 3-4 years, price wise this is the perfect time to be looking at a 2002.
Or you can be like my firend who looked at and loved the 9-3 but was so afriad of its undeserved reputation that he chickend out and bought a Honda Accord.
Did I mention the transmission on his Accord ate itself at 84,000 miles?
Did I?"
aj replied: "i have a 2003 9-3 (for what it's worth). LOVE IT. no problems. i'm at 60k miles and the thing has had 3 oil changes and that is it. fun, fast, stylish, luxurious feeling, safe."
bahn replied: "I don't have a 9-3, but I do have a 9-5, I have had great service out of it. It has 183k miles. It has been very reliable, a friend liked mine so well he bought one too. Find a good service facility or
you won't be satisfied. I took mine to an independant shop for
an alignment and they damaged my car, My friend took his to the shop and they overfilled the oil, and it blew a front sill, I also have a old 9000, which is a good car, hit a deer and only did minor damage. I do most of my own repairs to avoid the incompetant
local repair shops, not all that hard to work on. Just like any car their are good and bad ones out there, I had a 2004 Accord, hated it, bad paint, rode terrible, noisy, will never by another honda. I could drive the Honda 200 miles and couldn't walk when I got out of it, drive my saab all day and not completly exhausted.
Hope this info helps."
hobbabob replied: "i don't know if this applies yesterday a 9-5 wagon was towed in customer had just filled with fuel and had been driving 5 or so minutes when he noticed the car behind him flashing his lights and blowing his horn at same time engine power started dying out so he pulled over. fuel was pouring out from under the car. he lost more than half a tank.
anyway fault traced the leak to fuel line had come uncoupled and popped off of the pressure/supply port on the in tank fuel pump/Gage sending unit. this is accessed by lifting rear seat bottom and moving circle shaped carpet cutout out of the way and prying out metal access cover i put the hose back on and tie strapped the locking device to the fuel line the car is a 2001 model and has about 55k miles on it the style of fuel line lock is not of a positive locking style and probably should be inspected on all models [ he is real lucky it didn't burn] p.s. i have always enjoyed working on Saab's but feel this design is inexcusable."
mcghankathy replied: "I have a 2003 and I love it!!Convertible is great in summer, plus I drive it all winter-5 speed with snow tires. That car will go thru anything. I've had nothing repaired, except for the obvious-brakes, wiper blades. Rides like a dream. We already have 88,000 on it-we take it all over the country. Small trunk space obviously-but I think you'll love it. I never want to drive another car."
Yeah I'm looking to buy a cheap used car...? I'm a student, looking to buy a car. My budget is in the range of $1000-$2000. I live in the United States. I've been looking at Saab 9000, Saab 900S and some older Volvo models such as the 240 and 850s. I know that older American cars are garbage, and I really want a Swedish car. Also, I want to buy a standard transmission car, not automatic. I drive my parents car now which is automatic, but I really want to learn manual. I need something that will last me about 3 years. Any suggestions or feedback? How are these cars that I am looking at in terms of reliability, safety and durability? Are they worth it? Thanks in advance. I really appreciate any help.
mccoyblues replied: "Focus on finding a good used Volvo.
In your price range finding a reliable car is going to be a problem no matter what you end up with."
UCANTCME replied: "I would go with the Volvo but it will be somewhat expensive to maintain but cheaper than the Saab."
Any thoughts on 2002 S40/S60? I'm looking to purchase a car, and had all but settled on a used (2002/2003) Saab, but have found a couple of used Volvo's also in my price range - one is an S40 and one is an S60 - I'm looking for some real-world experiences with these vehicles - the good/bad/ugly - gas mileage, reliability, how many miles will I be able to get out of it? Most importantly how expensive is upkeep - is it as bad as everyone thinks? Any info anyone has would be helpful! Thanks!
FreedomLover replied: "If you are going to buy a Saab or Volvo...I hope you have DEEEEP pockets to cover repairs. From my experience...Repair prices on both of these rival BMW and Mercedes costs...ouch! But if you can afford them...go for it! My Brother-in-law rented an S40 a few years ago...it looked nice but I thought it was very uncomfortable. I would lean towards the S60 over the S40 because of this. Personally, I cannot imagine how I would live in a sedan...I have been driving Minivans and Small Wagons for so long I cant imagine how I would get by without the added utility! My Dream car is a 2004/05 VW Passat Wagon Diesel manual trans. Utility of an SUV...Comfort of a midsize sedan, economy of a compact!
I think that I would probably not worry too much about repair costs...You are already being sensible buying a car you can afford...instead of just financing a 'new' car for 7 years....You can do alot of repairs for what a new car payment costs... Every vehicle built today is so much more reliable than cars were 20 years ago that it really is hard to buy a bad car. Heck, even a lowly Kia will run 200,000 miles when maintained...
Go sit in them all and drive them...pick the one that is most comfortable to YOU...and buy it! They are all good looking reasonably reliable cars....so buy the one that 'fits' you the best!"
butchdalton replied: "Take the 40 over the 60.Gas mileage is better cheaper to maintain and almost as roomy inside.Upkeep does not have to cost alot.Look for an independant volvo specialty shop that can do the work for a fraction of the cost of the dealer.
I work in such a shop in Quebec Canada.If you would like contact me and i can try to find you a shop near you through my network.
Good luck"
DIRKDIGGLER replied: "the s60 is good but up keep is expensive dont buy an s40 whats wrong with a domestic car they are far more reliable"
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